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My WW just did what I think might have been the cruelest thing she's done in this whole fucking process. I told her today that as much as I think it would be great if she put the effort and energy into our family that it deserves that I no longer had any hope that she would.

And she said, "I had just started feeling like maybe this could work and you do this."

Now first of all, I know I shouldn't have had the conversation with her in the first place. I allowed my stupid brain to convince me that it was the right move, that she would be glad that I basically stopped caring about her going off and fucking AP, that it would reduce tensions. But I should have just stuck to my 180 and did my thing.

That said, how cruel is it to tell someone who just told you that they'd given up all hope that there was hope before they opened their mouth? And I know, intellectually, that the hope she offered is bullshit. We couldn't reconcile for the same reasons I gave up hope in the first place; she wouldn't sacrifice any part of her comfort for any period of time to make this work. She's selfish, manipulative, and ungrateful. But now I have this feeling that I fucked up a chance at keeping my family together. It's not true! It's not rational! And it shouldn't have crushed me but oh my fucking god it hurt.

F*ck her I would go hard 180 on her. She is very manipulative and abusive. Using DARVO. Sorry I would head for D. There are other people out there that are not like this. My xWS was very similar to your WS and he literally drove me insane. I had a mental breakdown and had to be put on medication. Luckily I detached myself enough that I could start seeing him for who he truly was while building my strength. I finally left after years of mental and emotional abuse. It was truly freeing, finding peace of mind and meeting someone who whould NEVER act this way.

[This message edited by crazyblindsided at 9:28 PM, Wednesday, June 7th]

Don't let her fool you into thinking that you should have just kept your mouth shut and everything would have been fine. You know better. You know she said that because now can she can try to twist things up so that it comes off as your fault. She wasn't going to do what it takes to R anyway.

I agree with cbs: FUCK HER.

There's no way that this was a thought-out response. She was trying to hurt you because you called her out. Do not take any responsibility for her poor choices and thought process. Get out of there as quickly as you can and minimize contact.
Oh, and let me add my $.02 as well: Fuck Her!

I had just started feeling like maybe this could work and you do this.

Translation: "I was just starting to believe that you were just going to put your head in the sand, let me have my boyfriend on the side, and allow me to continue being a selfish bitch... but then you had the nerve to express your desire for me to actually do something to preserve our family! Who do you think you are? My husband?"

Add me to chorus, Bob: FUCK HER!

You basically ripped your own heart out of your chest at that moment and handed it to her on a silver platter, only for her to react as if you presented her with a dog turd. Her comment was designed to throw you off balance and deflect blame... and it worked.

Enough is enough. You have nothing to work with; that has been proven time and time again. Go see a lawyer. Get the ball rolling on filing for divorce. Stop giving her more opportunities to hurt you.

[This message edited by BluerThanBlue at 10:00 PM, Wednesday, June 7th]

Typical cheater speak. Blameshifting. Now she wants you to think it's your fault you're divorcing.

She's simply manipulating you.

180..180..180

F*ck her I would go hard 180 on her. She is very manipulative and abusive. Using DARVO. Sorry I would head for D.

Our consultation with the attorney-mediator is Tuesday. Assuming we agree on this being our attorney-mediator, we'll create a schedule for completing various financial homework type things and get the process moving. I'm very concerned about the financial bit, though. I want to buy WW out of the house so at least there is one stable thing in our daughter's life but the market is such shit right now. I definitely don't want to do a cash out refi, I don't know if I can get a HELOC for the maximum amount of equity she could conceivably ask for, and even if I could the interest rate on them is sky fucking high, like so much that a 20-year HELOC is nearly half the monthly payment of my whole mortgage.

Don't let her fool you into thinking that you should have just kept your mouth shut and everything would have been fine. You know better. You know she said that because now can she can try to twist things up so that it comes off as your fault. She wasn't going to do what it takes to R anyway.

I know it but I don't yet feel it. This tightness in my chest and disconnection from my body just won't go away today. I'll have a lot to talk about with my therapist on Friday, that's for sure.

She has clearly demonstrated through her actions and words what she really is and what she really wants. I don't think this is time for 180. She is a hardcore cake eater. She will be become very comfortable with 180. You will distance yourself from her without divorcing her and, she will casually continue her affair without being bothered by your distance from her. She is not losing anything here. Its a perfect arrangement for her. Its time to serve her divorce notice. Initiate the D process.

I know it but I don't yet feel it.

Don't rely too much on feelings. They are not reliable. They keep on changing. Rely on what you know. That will help you.

[This message edited by Lurkingsoul12 at 10:34 PM, Wednesday, June 7th]

I think it's time for both the 180 AND the initiation of the divorce process.

The 180 is solely for Bob so that he can detach and try to find some peace. Don't do it hoping for a different outcome, Bob. Just do it for you. She's not worthy of your attention. Treat her like the stranger that she's become.

She's extremely abusive. Once you are no longer sharing space with her,you are going to feel so much better.

Bob...you really will be ok.

For some reason you keeping purposefully walking into the ring with a heavy weight- you’re a welterweight - and I mean that she’s a heavy weight lier, cheater, manipulator, gas lighter.

My advice - stay out of the ring snd move forward at top speed with the divorce. You need to stop interacting with her period, except for kids, household, and finances.

For some betrayed, they need to take a lot of punishment before they actually understand the person they are now dealing with - not the old person. I’m hoping that you’re now at that point.

I was a mess yesterday but I got myself back together that night. Something from, of all things, Ted Lasso struck a chord with me and snapped me out of it. Roy Kent is talking about his last season playing football (soccer) and how he moped about all season after playing a shitty in a match and then he retired at the end of the season. He wished he had stayed and just had fun.

Now, I'm not saying I'm staying with her and I'm definitely not having fun. But that's no reason to mope and make myself miserable.

Plus, divorced or not I'm stuck with her forever. We're going to have to co-parent. Maybe we're going to share grandkids eventually. I need to figure out how to tolerate her and work with her so that we can have a successful mediated divorce and healthy relationship with our daughter.

But yeah, I need this bitch out of my life.

Some (probably all) of us are very down on ourselves after d-day. Self-talk for a new BS is horrendous; it's virtually impossible for some (probably all) of u to see our positive qualities. IMO, the process is: feeling (anger, grief, fear, or shame) to attack-self self-talk to feeling worse until something interrupts the cycle, like Roy Kent did for you last night. Healing, in part, is training oneself to stop the cycle.

The thing I noticed first is that you call yourself Bob, the builder. Did that come from pride, some sense of accomplishment? That's a great start ... you know that you are somehow more than a BH and that you have a lot to be proud of. My reco is to remind yourself of that as much as you can.

Second. you blew the 180. You are not the first; you won't be the last. My reco is to forgive yourself. Be kind to yourself. You're doing the best that can be done - restarting the 180. Cool.

Third, my xdil abused my son horribly. After D, they co-parent cordially. I think you may be able to get to that.

You are not your M. You did not fail. Your W did, and that was out of your control. It's normal for new BSes to beat themselves up. I urge you to set a goal of nurturing instead of attacking yourself. Ypu probably won't be able to make that change without support and help, but it's something you CAN do, and making that change will make your life a lot better.

Good luck with the mediation.

[This message edited by SI Staff at 4:48 PM, Thursday, June 8th]

But now I have this feeling that I fucked up a chance at keeping my family together. It's not true! It's not rational! And it shouldn't have crushed me but oh my fucking god it hurt.

You could have kept eating the shit sandwich with a smile on your face for 30 more years, and if you finally had enough and said you didn't think she would put in the effort (after 30 years of not putting in the effort) she would have responded the EXACT SAME WAY. Because it's not true, she's lying, she just wants to turn this back on you.

My WH is always "just about to" do, say, accomplish something, right up to the second I ask about it (after leaving whatever it is alone for days, months, years,) then, whoops! I ruined it all! Just by asking!

(And he's such a contrary child, he'll often end up doing the exact opposite, just to show me.)

Don't let her lying, manipulative behavior hurt you. It's not you, it's her. Over and Over. If her lips are moving, she's lying.

I'm trying to exert control over my life in healthier ways. I don't want to let her keep hurting me so I'm doing what I can to learn how to accept the feelings without judgement and move on with my life

.

Bob, you are neither trying to exert over your life, or keeping yourself from being hurt by your W by continuing to avoid the advice of the group here. I understand that its still early since you've logged onto SI, and it has not been very long. I think it took me 3-4 months of reading and talking to some folks to get it through to my thick skull that what I was doing was not working.

Stop trying to pretend that you're letting her go, by doing things that in fact show that you are trying to control your wife and what she does with hers. You want out of infidelity, than you have to full stop not accept it. There is no inbetween. You may find out that once you've fully let her go, that in fact she does not want to reconcile, and you have to accept that. Just like you have to accept that she's cheated, and has continued to cheat once you've found out and told her multiple times to stop. Whatever it is you're trying, its not working. Let go of trying to control her, and just let her go be with the AP. You cannot force someone to love you the way you love them. That's not love, thats you chasing someone whose actively showing you to your face that she wants someone else. YOu will come to regret this when your head clears. Its not a good look.

If she truly wants you, and wants to work on you, which she has show zero of, she will cut contact and work her ass off to be with you and regain your trust. She has shown zero evidence by her actions that she wants you, your child or the marriage. Even if you don't want to accept this fact, continuing on the way you have won't make her come back. And even if she does, its bc the AP dumped her, not bc of her own free will.

We are trying to get you to see and avoid the mistakes we've all made, but sooner than we have. So please, move into the other room, go 180 on her, and move ahead b/c you deserve BETTER than what she is offering. Once you accept that you deserve better, you will see that she is not a good or safe partner. The current version of herself is not what you signed up for, and would never accept when you've awaken from your own fog. Stop the hopium, and start living a more authentic life. Your daughter is watching, teacher her this type of behavior is not acceptable from a spouse. Your WW may or may not wake up, but you need to.

Healing, in part, is training oneself to stop the cycle.

I talked to my therapist today about this sort of thing. We're going to meet again on Monday and talk about strategies for breaking me out of this kind of thing.

The thing I noticed first is that you call yourself Bob, the builder. Did that come from pride, some sense of accomplishment? That's a great start ... you know that you are somehow more than a BH and that you have a lot to be proud of. My reco is to remind yourself of that as much as you can.

I wish I had put that much thought into it. I just wanted to pick a username that I'd never used on any other site and picked the name of a show that my daughter didn't even particularly like when she was little. I've been trying to do at least one thing a day that makes me feel accomplished but that's basically just been keeping my head above water. I'm not ashamed or anything; there is no shame in being victimized. But I'm sad and I'm lonely. Not like lonely, lonely. I have great friends and family. Lonely like the one person who had been the center of my world for two decades isn't there anymore. I miss physical and emotional intimacy.

Halftime, I think you read the second page of this thread and missed the third page. I don't have any hope that she'll come to her senses and even if she wanted to I don't think she could face the challenges associated with reconciling after something like this. Even if she asked to reconcile today I wouldn't stop the divorce proceedings and she would have to move mountains and basically become a different person to stop me from signing at the end. It's not happening.

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I think my biggest hurdle right now is that I keep having to pretend things are normal because of our daughter. It kills me a little to have to pretend that she isn't doing this to me. Of course, I don't intend to tell our daughter about the infidelity but at least I wouldn't have to pretend to be happy. We'll be able to check in with her therapist next Thursday and see what he thinks about her readiness.

This is made all the more complicated by the two week trip to Costa Rica in July that's been planned for like a year. Our daughter has been feeling kind of anxious about the trip because she wouldn't see her friends for so long. Because of WW's work schedule she was going to go down for just a week so our compromise position had been that our daughter would go home with her and I'd stay for another week.

So part of me thinks we should wait until after the trip to tell our daughter but the idea of playing pretend for another month is stressing me out.

Our daughter has been feeling kind of anxious about the trip because she wouldn't see her friends for so long. Because of WW's work schedule she was going to go down for just a week so our compromise position had been that our daughter would go home with her and I'd stay for another week.

Would it be possible to invite one of your daughters friends or a cousin and send WW back alone? If so I would consult with her therapist about informing her now.

I'd love to have a friend of my daughter's go instead of letting WW come at all but I think it would be a hard sell to take one of her friends on a trip internationally. The friend whose parents I'm friendliest with has health issues that would prevent her from coming. I don't know if any of her friends has a passport!

My brother and his kids are coming for just a week so my daughter could come with them for week two and stay at home with WW for week 1. But I'd have to convince WW to go along with that.

But also, is it crazy that even though I'd hate having to pretend to be happy and be friendly with WW around our daughter that I kind of want to give the kid one last normal vacation before we break up the family?

But also, is it crazy that even though I'd hate having to pretend to be happy and be friendly with WW around our daughter that I kind of want to give the kid one last normal vacation before we break up the family?

The sentiment is understandable but in reality it might actually be more confusing and distressing for your daughter to have a happy family vacation only to be blindsided when divorce is announced. The sooner your daughter becomes accustomed to the new normal, the better.

There are other reasons this vacation could be more harm than good…

First, going on vacation with someone is the antithesis of the 180.

Second, vacations provide a lot of potential for conflict when you’re essentially stuck somewhere with your WS, particularly if they’re still actively in an affair and don’t have opportunities to sneak off to see or message their AP. My ex and I were on a cruise shortly before DDay #2 and he seemed cranky and distant for what I found out was exactly this reason.

Alternatively, the vacation could go swimmingly and you fool yourself into thinking that everything is great… only to get hurt again when you return to reality.

The vacation might be a nice distraction for your daughter after hearing the D news prior to dnd having a bit of time to digest it. Also, your daughter actually might react negatively that you didn’t give her the news beforehand, thinking the trip was not only disingenuous but also the fond memories of it were now tainted.