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My husband and I have been together 15 years, married 8. 10 days ago I found out that whilst away on work trips in another country over a period of 5 years, he has occasionally been so drunk that he has ended up in compromised positions with women (including a one night stand) and downloaded dating apps. This is completely out of character- none of his friends have ever seen him act this way. I found out by seeing tinder gold on his paid subscriptions in his app store, and demanding to know everything.
He says its alcohol driven, but I am so confused why he hasn't stopped drinking if this is the cause. He's just kept putting himself in stupid situations.

We have had a very happy relationship and I honestly can't put what he's told me, and his character together- it just doesn't fit.

We have suffered family bereavement during this time, and I often told him I didn't think he had confronted any of the pain we'd been through, so I've been wondering if it's trauma related.

Whilst I've asked for space to grieve, he's booked himself in to individual therapy, told family and close friends for accountability and support, cancelled all work trips for the foreseeable, and spoken to his boss about reducing his hours.

I am utterly devastated. But also entirely confused. He's taking all the right steps by himself for accountability and healing... And I truly want him to get the help he needs. If we can understand how it got this way, am I in denial to hope we can reconcile?

[This message edited by AppleTree1 at 12:56 AM, Monday, August 18th]

Welcome to SI and so sorry you're here. There are some posts that are pinned to the top of the forum that we encourage new members to read. There are also some posts that are great resources that aren't pinned to the top of the forum and you can find them by looking for those with bull's eye icons. The Healing Library is at the top of the site and has lots of great resources. The ICR (I Can Relate) Forum has different threads to fit different situations.

If you can, IC (individual counseling) with a trauma-informed therapist can be very helpful for you. YOU have now been the victim of trauma. If you're having trouble eating, be sure to stay hydrated and drink protein shakes if you aren't able to eat. If you're having trouble with depression or sleeping, please see a doctor for meds. Please be tested for STDs/STIs, as there are some nasty things out there that will turn into cancer and kill you.

Your WH (wayward husband) should read How to Help Your Spouse Heal From Your Infidelity by Linda MacDonald. It's fairly short, and is a good blue print for what he can do to help you heal. Another good book is Not Just Friends by Dr. Shirley Glass. (You can read both, too.)

Your WH needs to work in IC to understand why he let himself do this. There's nothing you did or didn't do that caused him to do this. He did it because he wanted to and the alcohol excuse lowered his inhibitions so that he did. That part is for him to fix.

R (reconciliation) is a lot of hard work. First, your WH has to do the work to become a safe partner. Many times, it is going to take consistent actions over time...and that isn't going to be a few weeks. Watch his actions and make sure they remain consistent. If he's been doing this for 5 years, then he has some serious work to do.

Have you asked him for a written timeline of his behaviors with as much detail as you need? For example, on this date, why were you on Tinder? Does he have any other subscriptions? He should also be sharing his passwords with you and have electronic transparency.

So sorry you're here.

The universal WHY. Every bs asks this and, sadly, the answer is because they wanted to. I have never asked my h anything about the cheating he did early in our marriage. It would be painful to watch him try to find a reason that sounded safe. I KNOW he did it because he wanted to. In my case I was a young mother with no marketable skills and by the time I had them he had grown up enough to behave himself. I did not cause it anymore than a meteorite did. That is what you must face.
Do not let yourself stay stressed out. It causes horrible things to your body as it stays in the fight or fight mode. You should reach out to a dr if you can’t sleep. Please do not use alcohol or any substance not prescribed by your dr. There are meds to help with sleep and anxiety.
I am so very sorry you have joined this club. The membership is in the billions.

Downloading an app and paying for a subscription isn't alcohol fueled loss of impulse control.

Thank you for your replies.
I do have a timeline - but the electronic transparency is a good idea too.

I am 31(F), have a strong career and a great support network...I am terrified of starting again, but know I have the foundation to do it if I need to. I am just completely determined to make the best decision for ME. I thought I had already chosen my person for the rest of my life and realising that may not be the case anymore is disorientating and devastating. Whichever way this goes, I need the closure of IC...we will either end up with a stronger relationship with better communication...or I choose a new life and a fresh start.
It's a lot.

You are not in denial. You have outlined a very clear set of facts and behavioral pattern.

Unfortunately for most of us here at Surviving Infidelity the reasons our spouses or partners cheat is because they wanted to. They thought they could get away with it. And for some time they did.

Unless the cheater takes full accountability and shows remorse (not regret), then you may not happily reconcile. Your H needs to make amends and let me be very direct - it’s not for 6 minutes or 6 weeks or 6 months — it’s forever. It’s until you have restored trust (which takes years if possible).

You are young enough to re-start your life. If you are going to live in a state of constant stress and fear he will cheat again, then maybe Reconciliation is not for you. You don’t want to spend years living like that.

Can he change? Yes if he really wants to. My H woke up and recognized the disrespect he showed me and changed his whole attitude towards marriage. He has created very good boundaries (on his own as part of making amends.

I didn’t tell him what I needed or what needed to happen to R. I left that up to him. IMO he had enough "brain cells" to cheat so he should channel
That towards reconciliation. My recovery process was watching WHAT ACTIONS he took, not what words he spoke.

In order to reconcile he must be willing to dig deep to understand his motivation. If he won't or can't address this neither of you will properly heal and you can be in danger of finding yourself in the same situation again down the road. Ask me how I know.

I agree with the earlier poster who said this alcohol driven. That is just an excuse.

Also, just a thought to explore, is he perhaps a secret porn abuser? This was the secret I did not know ow when my husband started using dating apps and then progressed to hookup apps. I learned this abouy him recently and have done a lot of research and it is shocking how many men get pulled into this and then stray. I had found evidence of dating/hookup sites over the years, but had no clue that he abused porn off and on for 25 years which led to the escalation of seeking actual women.

Knowing this doesn't make it any easier, but helped me start to understand the patterns.

Just a thought for you to explore.

I wish you the best as you start the beginning of unfortunately a long journey.

Thank you for your thoughts. I am so sorry you all have experience with any of this, but appreciate your thoughts and advice.

Super early for me on this journey. I guess there is not a great deal I can do right now, other than wait to see how he approaches and reacts to therapy and the action plan he's made.

Does anyone have any advice on how to set boundaries in these early days? We are currently living separately and only communicating about logistics and things like house maintenance. We have agreed to only speak in person about this topic to prevent misinterpretation by text, and he's made himselve available any time I want to do that. I'm just not sure how long this should be for, and when it will become detrimental to any potential reconciliation.

Thank you for your thoughts. I am so sorry you all have experience with any of this, but appreciate your thoughts and advice.

Super early for me on this journey. I guess there is not a great deal I can do right now, other than wait to see how he approaches and reacts to therapy and the action plan he's made.

Does anyone have any advice on how to set boundaries in these early days? We are currently living separately and only communicating about logistics and things like house maintenance. We have agreed to only speak in person about this topic to prevent misinterpretation by text, and he's made himselve available any time I want to do that. I'm just not sure how long this should be for, and when it will become detrimental to any potential reconciliation.

My advice on boundaries is this: it is up to the cheater to prove to you that they understand what they did has devastated the betrayed spouse and blown up the marriage.

It is up to the cheater (IMO) to figure out the boundaries on their own and prove to you they are worth reconciling with.

If the BS (betrayed spouse) tells them do X or Y or Z, you have no way of knowing their commitment and willingness to make amends. And if it’s not the cheater’s idea, who knows if they stick with it.

On the other hand if the cheater willingly makes changes and sets their own boundaries then you have a barometer to work with. You can see that they "get it" and understand the damage they caused. And that their actions indicate a commitment to the marriage.

You don’t want to end up being the marriage police. And if you say "no hidden apps" and have to monitor that, then you hurt yourself even more. But if the cheater is open and honest and making an effort and says " here is the PW to my phone and you can look at it anytime" then it shows that they get it.

I am usually in the minority on this point but I can share that this is what I did and it worked for us. The cheater knows right from wrong IMO and should be able to do this on their own.

I so agree with first wife.

The first time around I did all the heavy lifting and told him what to do and why I thought things had gone wrong. He, while remorseful , didn't do the work to figure out the whys and truly change thw deep rooted beliefs and behaviors long term.

This time around I laid it out that he needed to dig deep and figure out the whys and what he needed to do to make lasting change. He figured out most of the boundaries himself(eg, no social media, no convos with women except clients, joint office instead of hiding away in basement, avoiding my trigger words and situations, being consciouncess of accounting for his time and making sure I'm not alone too often, reading books-I do prescreen and make suggestions- initiating deep and emotional conversations, letting me lead regarding sexual activity, and the biggest one was being honest and disclosing past innapropriate behaviour that even with all my sherlocking I had zero clue about and would have never figured out I'd he didn't disclose ( years of porn abuse).

I tell him things that specifically trigger me and things that I am concerned about and he is very conscientious to figure out how to work through these, but mostly I have left it to him to figure out what HE needs to do for reconciliation and healing to be successful those time.

It is not easy for either of us, but he truly is a different person- finally all the anger is gone and he can actually.cpmminicate with me, wven if what he hs ro day hurts me (or him). None of this would have happened if I hadn't pushed and insisted on him doing the work this time.

Just a quick comment here. Aside from anything BS might do I think the emphasis has to be, for me, on AVOIDING TEMPTATION. We don't tend to do that now in the modern era. We put ourselves in situations, perhaps unthinkingly, or we just think we have more will power and strength or morals than we actually do. If your spouse cheats in bars, he or she can't go to bars. If the spouse cheats on trips, he has to stop going on trips. If he can't be online and have online oppo sex friendships without getting involved, he has to STOP being online and getting into these situations. Preacher Billy Graham famously would not be alone with a woman he was not related to - only his wife and relatives. Partly so he could avoid compromise if someone accused him of something later, but also so he could AVOID temptation. A WS always has to show willingly what they are going to do to AVOID TEMPTATIONS, whatever might trigger them or allow them to be unfaithful. With my fanatical love of potato chips and sweets....I have to stay away from this, sometimes I just let my husband do the shopping. Perhaps not a good analogy but anything that keeps me away from these things, helps. I just don't over-estimate my will power. I don't think any of us should. Don't allow yourself to get into situations where bad stuff can happen!

This, of course means, that sometimes a WS will have to GIVE UP SOMETHING to avoid temptations, and it may be something they enjoy like traveling, or partying or online chats or whatever, but they have to give it up for the sake of the relationship, the relationship has to be worth more to them, and that's something they can demonstrate, as a sacrifice, of their own. After cheating, you can't just live the same way you did before cheating (or before being found out).

[This message edited by BondJaneBond at 6:38 AM, Tuesday, August 19th]

Does he get drunk alcohol at home?

I guess I can see trying to console himself for being so far away that he drinks too much and ends up cheating once. I've certainly drunk too much while on the road because I missed my W. (One night my boss and I killed 2 liters of Scotch while lamenting our loneliness. We were in temp housing, not a bar.)

But that membership in tinder ... that bothers me a lot, too. I'd want to know what made him think endangering your M was a good idea - and what he will do to nurture the M instead of endangering it again.

Have you considered living together again? If R is on the table, living together, talking with each other provides a lot of evidence that can help you make a good D/R choice.

Thank You Lizzie J. I took this advice and told him this evening that I need HIM to do the research on what to do. He has IC booked, but all the additional work and systems he is going to need in place has to be driven by him and the work he does to understand the root causes. He has such a long road ahead.. and I don't think he's quite grasped that yet. He has buried both his trauma, and his actions for so long that he is genuinely struggling to admit to himself what he's done. Your comment has given me hope for a deeper relationship if he makes it through.

I completely agree BondJaneBond about the removal of temptations. I noticed he's already put a 10 min time limit on social media- long enough to see what friends have posted but not long enough to end up down a hole. Stopped drinking alcohol, and told his boss he is unable to travel for work for the foreseeable. Im waiting to see what other boundaries he sets in place. I have a few in mind, but need him to figure it out himself.

Hi Sisoon, he does drink at home-but never to excess. However, the weekend before Dday, he was on our friends stag do and the stag sent me a video of my husband staggering around. I had never seen him like it, he was a different person. I know the drill at these things, and he would have been trying to keep up with everyone. But it made realise that if this is what has been happening whilst away and he's in a tempting environment, then I can see how it all escalates. I'm just so so angry that after just once he didn't think "That was awful, I never want that to happen again"... Its like he has locked it so deeply away, that he's convinced himself it hasn't happened.
Tinder makes no sense in all of this- It's the one part that just doesn't add up. I don't think he knows himself. He says he downloaded it when he got back to his room after drinking heavily and thinks he must have run out of swipes and ended up paying. From his phone bill, you can see that it was paid for at around 2am.. So that would correlate... But still. Why?! That app is for one thing only. I struggle to get my head around it.

I am thinking of going home this weekend. Mainly because I need some routine back to support my own mental health through this. But I think it's far too early to be talking R, until he has started tackling the deep rooted issues in IC - need to understand all of this a lot more, and I need to see him doing that work himself. We've got enough space to not be on top of each other, but I think you're right that it gives a better opportunity to talk and get things out.

I had a thought about the Tinder, which might be totally off the wall, but I'll throw it out there. If he was drunk with his friends earlier (or even by himself, I'm not clear) and then loaded up Tinder, he might have got the idea from a friend or friends. One or more may be cheaters themselves. People are often influenced by their friends for good or ill. Maybe one of them said take a look at this for a good time, she'll never find out. Consider what his friends are like, especially if he's made any new ones. That might be something that needs to be pruned if they actually are a source of problems. People who have friends who support or promote cheating....or even just don't take relationships seriously....I think are likely to cheat too.

APPLE- I am glad my comments to you helped. I don't want you to go through what I and so many others have gone through thinking you are reconciling, but nit actually if he won't dig deep and figure out what is broken inside and then change. Without this it is a doomed effort.

I hear you about him not facing his own trauma and lying to himself. My husband was the same,he denied denied denied or said I dont remember doing that whenever I found new evidence. He was constantly saying, "I don't know why I did any of it as I don't remember it, it's like I was in a fog."

I told my husband a polygraph wouldn't help me because he didn't even know what was true any more. For example, he couldn't understand what I was talking about asking him about some of his attempts to video chat with women he was conversing with on facebook until I literally showed him screenshots and read him word for word a converation where he tried to initiate a video call with a women who he was flirting with. This was even after he had an interactive video sexual encounter where she eventually tried to sextort him. But even through that humiliation and the danger of it, he tried to connect with someone again! He was genuinely stunned that he had tried to do it again.

I mean some behaviour he knew and remembered, but a lot he had denied to himself and had buried. I pushed and prodded to get him to think about what was going on with him, but it was up to him to do the self-reflection. He has worked very hard and came up with some stunning revelations about childhood abuse that was buried, as well as facing some things that he denied even to himself.

That self-reflection and what came out of it has been painful for us both, but essential to get us to move forward. He was scared to share the truth with me but knew especially from all the reading he has done that there would be no reconciliation or healing for either of us if he didn't share what was truly going on and what drove his innaprpriate behaviour over the past 25 years.

We talked today about what went wrong last time and he admitted back then he was not willing to face his behaviors and the root causes including the deeply buried anger and resentment he carried for so long this lack of self reflection after the first dday is what allowed his innappropriate behaviour to surface again six years later.

I won't sugarcoat it, This is the hardest thing Ive ever had to do, and I have survived a lot of hard sh*t including several business losses and betrayal by business associates , pregnancy loss, burying a parent, betrayal by every romantic partner ever, and in one way or another by every member of my family, my mothers horrible dementia made her accuse me of crazy things, (when she knows who I am), I went through illness with a 20% chance of survival, and I was disabled/wheelchairbound for 4 years. This 2nd betrayal and choosing to reconcile is 10 times harder than any of that.

I think it is worth it this time because I feel like the work my husband is doing has changed him profoundly. Including him admitting to things I never in all my sherlocking would have found (and I spent 1000's of hours). If he hadn't put in the work I think I would be done.

What I am trying to say is that reconciling is very very hard, but impossible if your husband won't dig deep and find out what he is denial from even from himself.

Hugs and best wishes to you.